Curse

Tela · Oct 11, 2009, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Yeah this hench update will make HA a lot worse

one one thing you can say about anet is they are consistent. yeah they consistently make the game worse with every change they make. this totally blows, im sure ha will be twice as dead now that you have to pug extra people. yay now it will take 4 hours instead of 2 to make a group at night

Killed u man · Oct 11, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Not having HA at all > PvE trampling over it.

Observe any match, chances are there is a PvE team in HoH, who get there with the aid of heroes, who have no clue what they're doing.

Heroway did nothing but bad for HA. I'dd rather see PvE'ers take 2 more bad PvE'ers in their team, than 2 Heroes who can make or break the match depending what the AI decides to do... (Getting teased 3 teams on spirit bond or infuse will loose you the match, no matter how good your team is)

axe · Oct 12, 2009, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Not having HA at all > PvE trampling over it.

Observe any match, chances are there is a PvE team in HoH, who get there with the aid of heroes, who have no clue what they're doing.

Heroway did nothing but bad for HA. I'dd rather see PvE'ers take 2 more bad PvE'ers in their team, than 2 Heroes who can make or break the match depending what the AI decides to do... (Getting teased 3 teams on spirit bond or infuse will loose you the match, no matter how good your team is)

This is mostly true, I disagree about not having HA at all though, which is why I am scared about this Hench change.

You are right though before Heroes you just had to take 8, but now the damage has been done. I dont think you will find players that can replace those heroes, the heroway builds that people are comfortable with, will be so much more unsuccessful that instead of gaining 2 human players you are losing 6. They should have used HA meta Heroes like Taint, RoJ, Tease, etc.. with the inability to micro them it would be a significant nerf on its own.

Heroes already come with advantages/disadvantages We almost lost to a team during a bad match with a lot of lag, the 2 RoJ heroes were getting kills while everyone else was lagged. But its much harder for heroways to pull wins on tactics maps. Except of course if you factor in that they most likely will be facing another team with 2 heroes....

Anyways I fear with this change that HA will become even more vacant which really sucks, and while it USED to piss me off seeing the teams with heroes, I rarely face any teams without heroes and you just get used to it after time I guess.

My stance has changed on the issue, I used to despise heroes, but now I am learning to live with them because I think its one of the few things keeping HA going during my time of night.

Killed u man · Oct 12, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

PvE'ers will want their Hero title for HoM, with or without the Aid of heroes.

So instead of 10 imbalanced heroways, we will now have 8 weak PvE teams.

Taking away heroes does not magicly take away the ability to pug for them, it simply forces them to take 8 people of their skill level, rather than a hero who can easily outperform a R12+ prot/mesmer.

If HA all of a sudden collapses like a pudding, that says enough about the mentality of people nowdays. (They want AI to farm their titles)
And if that is the truth, again: HA should be discontinued aswell.

Im pretty sure, tough, this will not be the case. There will be just as much teams forming, and PvE'ers are now forced to LEARN and IMPROVE. (Whereas heroes used to carry them)

Krill · Oct 12, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

I agree that heroes, particularly the tease hero have carried a lot of players and it will be really pathetic if the tiny bit of life left in HA is snuffed out because bad players can't ez mode some fame. But you've also got to understand how dead HA is during the American nights Borat, it can take well over an hour to get a group together even when the majority of the group is friends and guild members. There's basically no reason to play because one group will hold forever playing 1v1s and almost every match on the way there will be hexes, SFway (this is what PvEers run...) or the one American guild that still iways every night. Oddly enough about the only fun games are the randomways people like Edwards run, with heroes.

axe · Oct 12, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

If HA all of a sudden collapses like a pudding, that says enough about the mentality of people nowdays. (They want AI to farm their titles)
And if that is the truth, again: HA should be discontinued aswell.

I know how you are feeling, but taking away all those Heroway teams also hurts the teams of a full 8v8, as it is now, we have 6 min waits in between matches and sometimes 24 min. waits in between HoH matches. If those heroways are gone, it will effect those of us that play a full 8 as well.

I dont know what the new HoH map will do but if it balances out the 1v1 HoH matches then that is good enough, but taking away heroes will kill HA during American nights, you wont have enough teams and you will get UW > HoH skips everytime you play.

If you open party search there are 2 teams forming at any given time and they sit there for hours. Only guild and flist teams go in, its really the worst it has ever been.

superraptors · Oct 13, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

reason ha became dead is because of heroes in the first place. No one wants to play with/against heroes except for pvers who still grind for their ranks.

axe · Oct 13, 2009, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

reason ha became dead is because of heroes in the first place. No one wants to play with/against heroes except for pvers who still grind for their ranks.

This is just a misconception. Too many top guild players run hero builds, as well as a lot of high ranked teams, they take the heroes for whatever reason they feel but the bottom line is, on American Nights we get no teams to face, I would rather put up with heroes and all that to get good matches in there somewhere whether it be a pure 8v8 fight along the way.

We won HoH last night after a skip from burial and faced a randomway in HoH 1v1, then we got 2 12 Min waits back to back and got another 1v1. I was surprised when the next match was a 3 way.

HA is pretty much only as active as the Pug Teams forming, and if you make it take any longer to form they will stop, and so will the guild teams and flist teams because you will sit idle for 24 min. between matches, I only play for 2 hours a night and when you skip to HoH off UW and get 24 min waits CONSISTENTLY we are to the point where we may start raging out of HoH and reforming just to get matches on UW.

Killed u man · Oct 13, 2009, 12:50 PM // 12:50

These high ranked teams you're speaking off, I assume, is AOK (Living), Boloz and some other infamous hwayers.

And let me assure you: They don't play Heroway because they can't get pugs, they play it because it's all they know how to play.

As for top guilds running Heroway: Same story different background.

We roll (And I mean roflstomp) top GvG teams in HA, because it's a different playstyle. (We rolled rawr in their glory days in under 2 minutes).

HA and GvG are 2 different things, and a top GvG team isn't automaticly "good" at HA. (As a matter of fact, only YMCA guildies play HA regularly, and are half decent at it)

So these GvG teams don't purely run hway because they can't get pugs. There's also some honor factor involved in knowing they WILL get rolled by other herowayers. (Since they never HA, they never learned how to coop with hway)

So no: Hway is not a build run due to lack of pugs. It's a build run due to lack of skill. If it was the former, I wouldn't be able to form 8 man pug teams at dead american/euro hour. (Euro dead hour = when crystal holds, american dead hour = when dinosaur stomp holds)

Taking heroes away from HA, again, will not stop people from forming. Instead, people will just take 2 more players.

Tough, I agree that HA is very dead, I don't believe this will be the final nail in the coffin, but rather the opposite.

More people needing pugs = people flow to HA. Instead of bringing Gwen/Dunk, people will now ask a PvE friend, or simply a pug. This, in essence, will bring new people in contact with HA. These people, on their turn, will ask more friends, etc.

All heroway did was fill up the holes that enabled people to start with HA in the first place. With those -butt-"plugs" gone now, there is a possibility for a positive flow of people towards HA, as heroes don't fill up those spots anymore.